The Half of the Story You Haven't Heard
There is one person I talk about on this channel all the time and somehow you've never actually heard from her. Her name is Ashlie. She's my ex-wife, she's the mother of our daughter, Savannah, and she's a registered nurse. She's a big part of my book, The High Cost, and I can say this without exaggerating: Ashlie saved my life.
When I went to federal prison, I was flat broke. I couldn't pay child support, I couldn't help with the bills. She was raising her daughter, working, taking care of everything on the outside, basically doing all of it without me. And yet somehow, she was still taking care of me too:
- She took my phone calls
- She sent me emails and answered mine
- She put money on my books when I didn't have any
When I first got out of prison and was scared, confused, and trying to figure out how the hell I was going to do this five years, she'd listen. When I was finally getting into RDAP, she listened. When I finally got in, she heard about my progress, my frustrations, my fears, my obsession with getting home early. And sometimes I called her and I cried, and she listened to that too.
I spent a lot of time on The Federal Toolbox telling you what addiction did to me, what getting prosecuted did to me, but that's only half the story. Because while I was serving my sentence, Ashlie was on the outside raising our daughter, paying the bills, answering the phone, and dealing with the consequences and decisions that I made. She never got sentenced, but that doesn't mean she didn't do time.
And, I've talked about her for a while, and today for the first time, you don't have to hear about Ashlie from me. You get to hear from Ashlie. I've asked Ashlie to be completely candid today. She doesn't have to agree with my version of what happened, and she doesn't have to soften anything to spare my feelings. I haven't given her any of these questions in advance. I want her honest answers, even the ones that may be hard for me to hear.
The Interview
Brad: Ashlie, when I got sentenced, how did you feel? What did that do to your internal mechanism?
Ashlie: Well, originally, because you know we were there with you at your sentencing hearing — I even spoke at it — when we got the news that you got five years, I was initially relieved. Because you were looking at what, 10 to 15 years? So when we got five years, we knew you were going to do some time, but at least it was only five years.
Then as things went on and you started giving me power of attorney and giving me access to your phone calls, answering your calls and things like that to help sort out the outside world, I remembered reading a message you had sent to your attorney. It said something along the lines of, "If I was to have to go do this all again, hell yeah I would, I had a lot of fun," something like that. And I was so pissed off. Because in my mind, I was like, "Wow, he would go back and make these same choices again and leave me and his daughter to fend for ourselves."
And so, I was really pissed at that point. I was really pissed off. I even called your attorney and talked some shit, and I was like, "Yeah, he needs to do his five years." So anyway, yeah, there's a lot of emotions that go on when it comes to dealing with something like that.
Brad: The whole time while I was in there, you were working and raising Savannah, and getting absolutely no financial help from me. What was the hardest part? And I had stopped paying child support because I couldn't pay it. What was the hardest part of everyday life while I was gone?
Ashlie: Yeah, so one thing as a single mom, when you're paying all the bills and you're working all the hours and doing all the child care and getting the kid to school... I mean, I have one child, so I don't know how parents do it to have multiple children. But getting them to their activities, making sure they're safe while you're still working 40, 45-plus hours. I think at the time I was working 48 hours a week, so that's a significant time away from the home. You have a different appreciation of what a two-person household can bring to the family. And then you also just have to learn how to be tough and get through the tough times. I think there's a saying: tough times create tough people. And so, yeah, you just do what you have to do.
Brad: We were already divorced. What made you decide to keep showing up for me?
Ashlie: That's a good question.
Brad: Was I worth it?
Ashlie: Really, it's having the opportunity for... So with the five-year sentence, you would have been out before Savannah was 18. And for me, that was really the most important thing: having the opportunity to develop a relationship with your daughter. You had a relationship with her, but just to keep it going, and for her to know that sometimes you can make mistakes, but you can learn from them and grow and change. I just wanted her to have the opportunity to build that relationship with you. Really, that's probably the main thread between us, is her. But you and I have also been friends forever. So despite our differences and our history.
Brad: You heard me all through RDAP. I was in there for one year going through hell, ups and downs, and you took the calls and answered all the emails. And then you saw me come home. What actually changed about me, if anything?
Ashlie: Yeah, I think I saw you completely change. During RDAP, you would have homework assignments, and these homework assignments really made you think about your actions, your behaviors, the consequences that come along with them, and accountability. And, those are some major things that... I can't remember off the top of my head one of them, but you would come to me with, "How do I answer this?" And to me, it would seem like a no-brainer for someone who would think about other people when they make their decisions, not that I'm perfect. — I'm not saying that. But I saw you be able to start thinking about other people when you make your decisions and actions, and sort of the ripple effect of what that means. So yeah, I saw you transform into a totally different person in the way you think, and the way you think about your actions, and the way you know that those have an effect on other people.
Brad: Are you saying that I didn't give a rat's ass about anybody prior to this whole endeavor?
Ashlie: Yeah, I think you liked to have fun. So, you know… But no, obviously I don't think that because you and I would not be talking. You're a genuine person; you just sometimes would choose a more fun, what we call "woohoo" path, than sort of the path that you're on now.
Brad: Still a work in progress.
Ashlie: Yeah, we all are.
Brad: Let me just finish with this. What do you think that I still don't understand about what you went through? Because I'm sure there's something.
Ashlie: What you don't understand... I guess really, I'm not sure if you don't understand this, but I don't think that you felt it. And, it's really like, I guess, a sense of abandonment. Feeling like your family was abandoned — meaning me and Savannah — to make the choices that you made. And that feeling can run to a core issue, feeling that from someone you trust and who's supposed to love you and protect you. So yeah, probably just like an abandonment wound, I guess you could call it.
Brad: Ashlie, thank you for not only doing this interview, but for everything that you did while I was gone. For taking the calls, for taking the emails, for putting money on my books — I'm still not going to pay you back — but for raising Savannah when I wasn't there to help you do it, and especially for being honest with me today. And, I know some of this probably wasn't very easy for you to say, and some of it wasn't easy to hear.
I spent a lot of time on this channel talking about what prison did to me, but one thing this conversation reminded me of was when one person goes to prison, the consequences don't stop at the prison gate. Somebody else pays the bills, somebody else raises the kid, somebody else answers the phone, somebody else worries. And sometimes somebody else carries a piece of that sentence without ever committing a crime.
Ashlie never went to prison, but she lived through mine. Thank you for being there when I needed you, Ashlie.
I'm Brad Aragon, this is Federal Toolbox, and if you know somebody on the outside who carried you through your sentence, maybe today is a good day to thank them.
Thanks for watching.